Thursday, October 29, 2009

If you play as intended, you're cheating...

I saw a discussion of the CVA hacking/disbanding on Massively and I'd like to paraphrase what one of the commenters said:
"Another reason I'm letting my Eve sub run out this month" is because "all manner of espionage and underhanded tactics are permitted… Winning like that is the diametrical opposite of FUN…" and "since CCP is confused… and thinks that kind of thing is a 'win', I see more and more… fighters like me quitting… eventually resulting in the entire game being composed of failgamers and their alts…"
Now, it's bullshit like that which shows so many players of Eve Online just don't get it. They really don't.

CCP create this game to be a particular way. They have features and game-play elements purposefully created to be a part of the game, and to lead to all kinds of different actions.

And then you get these people who honestly believe that using the very functions of the game - as they're designed to be used - is tantamount to cheating. And they consider the game developers themselves to be 'confused' when people play the game the way CCP have designed the game to be played.

I'm trying to keep a civil tongue. I'm trying to avoid swearing at these idiots that think 'playing the game' is cheating, and that once all the 'decent players' quit, all that'll be left are those who cheat.

And seriously… they think CCP are confused about their own game, and that people are cheating and playing in ways not intended?

Grow a friggin' brain.

Or, please - quit now, before your sub runs out. You're obviously clueless about this game, and we really don't need you to pollute the spaceways with your idiocy.

If you get offended by this, then YOU are one of those who should quit. Do it. Do it now!


  1. thats just plain old wrong, and stupid!

    ccp did not by suggestion (game mechanics or design) ever intend anyone to hack into someone elses account - thats plain old illegal - in real world terms!

  2. Computer Misuse Act: illegal to hack accounts.
    ccp eula: Section 6, B part i: unauthorised access.

    the game is not being used as they intended.

  3. You post about how many players in eve "just don't get it". If these players are in the majority (if there is truely that many) then stop to consider this: it is u that is wrong.
    It would bE bad business to ignore such a large amount of these players (again ifthere truely is that amount) then it is u who is in the wrog place and it should be u that leaves.

    Before u accuse me of being the aforementioned carebears/criers, I'm not. Knlu pointing out that there's a sting possibility that u are on the wrong side of the fence.

  4. "Another reason I'm letting my Eve sub run out this month" is because "all manner of espionage and underhanded tactics are permitted… Winning like that is the diametrical opposite of FUN…"

    Too bad, so sad, QQ. Byeeeeee.

    I'm all for such tactics but that doesn't mean that certain poorly implemented mechanics don't need fixed. The alliance disbanding mechanic is broken COMPARED TO OTHER "BIG DECISION" MECHANICS IN THE GAME. It shouldn't be easier than approving a war dec or even dropping roles to leave a corp.

    Yes, I do think CCP is confused about their game sometimes. CCP Devs are not perfect, hence EVE is not perfect. If they were infallible, we'd never see any changes result from the proposals made in Assembly Hall or otherwise. But we do, because EVE is an evolving entity.

    If CCP doesn't think the alliance disbanding mechanic is broken--if they maintain that it is in place as intended and for good game balance reasons--then why don't they state that clearly and explain why?

  5. Wow! Say what you mean, Alexia! :)

    I only have one problem with your post here... it looks like you are supporting the hacking of accounts. Like Anonymous said, it is against the EULA and illegal in most countries anyway. Of course, if your account got hacked, then you were probably negligent in your own personal security procedures and have nobody to blame but yourself.

    I am completely behind you on the other point though! If a corp/alliance is brought down from within by corruption, intimidation or other underhanded means then there is no problem. In character, these methods apall me and I just want to lash out at anyone who would even consider this. OOC, its a perfectly valid way to play and fits within the EVE universe and back story.

    - Darina

  6. First item, don't post anonymously. Doing so only makes one think that your argument may already be flawed, you are aware of that flaw and you don't have the ability to hold to an intelligent discussion.

    As you and many others are aware, I've talked a great deal about where the lines between in game and out of game lie.

    Let's temper this a bit. It is still very early and we don't know exactly what happened and that really determines how one should respond. There are two possible scenarios here:

    Scenario 1: A director became disloyal to his alliance and disbanded the organization in a similar fashion that Band of Brothers fell to. This is within the game mechanics as they are designed and intended to be used. There is nothing wrong with this chain of events nor has anything illegal occurred. Ethically it's wrong, but that's not the issue as such actions are allowed to exist in game. You are allowed to decide how you will behave in game. It's a virtual world in all sense of the definition and the rules are very open given the framework in which the game is played.

    Scenario 2: The CVA director's account was hacked. I've talked about unauthorized access on killboards, websites and forums before. This is one of those things that unfortunately falls into a gray area due to jurisdictional context. In this case the context and jurisdiction fall to CCP and their terms of service. Hacking someone's game account is a bannable offense and depending on where the individual who purported this act lives, could be an illegal act for which they could be prosecuted.

    Scenario 1 is NOT cheating. It's just one of those times of being in the right place in the right time to affect an outcome that is reflected upon many people.

    Scenario 2 IS cheating and you would be hard pressed to find anyone in CCP who would not take action against such questionable actions.
    Either scenario is possible at this point, we need more information and that will come but it will take time.

  7. Just to clarify....

    Nowhere was I supporting the hacking of accounts. Where do I say that?

    Even the quote I posted did not discuss hacking. The quote was actually discussing complaining about how "all manner of espionage and underhanded tactics are permitted..."

    My issue was with idiots who live in this dream world that revolves around what they THINK the game is all about, and if someone plays the game in a way that violates what exists in their mind, they think there's cheating going on.

    But I still didn't encourage or promote hacking in anything I wrote.

    So maybe there's some more delusional dream worlds inside a few heads around here, and they're only seeing what's in their mind instead of what's on the web page.

    Yeh, I'm talking to you.

  8. Just as a further comment...

    My post was not about CVA being hacked or disbanded legitimately. I was not discussing that at all. My post was about the idiot that thinks "espionage and underhanded tactics" are illegal, and anyone that does them are cheating.

    So if you're flying a covert ops ship, you're cheating. It's that kind of idiocy this post was about.

    Who the hell are you people to get up in arms that I'm encouraging and promoting hacking of people's accounts?

    Get off my blog.

  9. the whole cva thing is around hacking, however myself and others didnt see the distinction in your original posting.

    i stand corrected and regret my mistake.

    but let me be clear about something: everything goes in war! a win is a win is a win.

  10. i guess i should also clarify that im not encouraging anyone to hack someone elses account.

  11. I aggree "espionage and underhanded tactics" are legal (spys in corp, corp theft and covert ops ships mentioned by Alexia). Spys and corp theft are distastefull but a fact of life.

    Hacking is against the law but (getting a conviction is another matter) that wont stop peaple.

    Macros and ISK selling are against the EULA but they still openly go on.

  12. It's official:

    CVA was hacked, CCP has restored that which was lost.

  13. "Get off my blog"

    sorry buddy, this is a public blog, you dont like what that entails, then get out yourself ;)


    "this is a public blog"...

    Oh, that's hilarious.

    If it was a public blog you would have control, being part of the public and all. But if I don't like you, I can ban you.

    That makes it MY blog. Come on, just give me a reason to ban you...


  15. what i mean is, its open to public viewing, therefore the public will say what the want about it, when they want - sorta like the way celebrites get chased around by paparazzi

    ...i take it u were challenged to a duel by that fella running around challenging celebrities right?

  16. No, not yet. But I'm waiting. :)

    We met at a gate once, passing each other by as he was on his way to a duel, and we had a quick chat. Apparently I'm on his list.


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