Tuesday, September 29, 2009

What is a Carebear?

There's a huge debate in the blogosphere, which I'm happy to say was started by me. But I've learned Carebears are proud of being Carebears, but it seems they don't understand what a Carebear is.

So here's an explanation:

Carebears are:
  • players who stay in CONCORD space and never venture into lowsec or 0.0 space
  • players who detest PVP (player vs player) combat and whinge about how it ruins their gaming enjoyment
  • players who are killed via PVP and then complain about player harassment or cheating
  • players who focus gameplay only on non-PVP activities
  • players are afraid of being attacked by other players
  • players who ruin PVP games by whinging so much to the game developers that the game developers think they're the majority and change the game to suit the Carebears
The reason why people like me complain about Carebears is because our gaming enjoyment is spoiled by the changes these people demand to the game. They don't like being killed, so they demand the game developers make it harder to be killed. As a result, the 'killers' find their game play even harder.

Since Eve Online started - and continues - as a player vs player (PVP) game, every time someone whinges about how badly they've suffered at PVP, they're automatically a Carebear. Every time a Carebear wants the game changed to suit them, they're automatically loathed by every PVP player who's suffered at how the game changes around them to suit the Carebears.

So now you've been educated. And you're a Carebear if you whinge about people whinging about you. Yes, that applies to pirates too. :)

So when I say Carebears need to 'harden the fuck up', what I'm really saying is stop your whinging, and stop wanting this game to change to suit you. If you don't like it, go play something else.


  1. I hate players like this as well, whingers. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen!

  2. Like your article and the discussion it started and you're probably right, but maybe wrong. I am a temporary carebear (although I have never whined about being killed and I lost more than 1 CNR in PVP I didn't ask for), but just becasue I don't have the skills yet to be convincing in PVP. I personally decided that I can't have a carebear and combat pilot in one character, so I am specialising and training an alt for "the other part" of the game.

    So, while I do some missions with my main character and train up a pvp pilot with my alt, you can call me whatever you want. Question I have though: "If I would force you as a PVP pilot to fly in high-sec for a while and do some lvl3 or lvl4 missions, how would that make you feel?" How would it feel if I could force you to play the game different that how you prefer to play the game (based in your skills). To force you to fly slow passive tanking ships, instead of fast active tankers? I am sure you wouldn't be too positive about that either. But it's a choice (you chose to fly a mission) and not something I can force you to do, while being attacked in PVP is not a choice (except to stay away from low-sec). So, if both play the game they want and leave each other in peace (somewhat), everybody can play the game they want. And if I am ready to venture into PVP, I am sure to look you up ;-)

    Again! Good discussion...

  3. Anonymous - everything you raised as 'being forced to' are only choices that are being made. No one is being forced to do anything. Everything is a choice. Whatever you want to do is a choice, and with that choice come restrictions, but the restrictions are not forced upon you, they're a result of the CHOICES that are made.

    If you want to take haulers into lowsec, you are first warned about it being dangerous. If you venture into it, it's a choice you make. If you make that choice you should make it intelligently, and use scouts or support personnel. If you had battleships, cruisers and frigates supporting your hauler through lowsec, I can guarantee you that you're unlikely to be attacked by pirates. They're not interested in major fleet battles, they're only interested in weak targets.

    If you choose to be a weak target, you reap the consequences. If you choose to make yourself strong, you reap the rewards.

    Everything is about choice. Play smart, and you'll be fine. Play dumb, and you won't.

  4. Well, let's see...

    Do we stay in highsec? Yes, except for when we go into wormhole space (which is technically 0.0, of course).

    Do we detest PvP? Well, we don't much like it and don't seek it out, but we don't whine about it.

    Do we complain about harassment or cheating after getting PvP'd? No, we just utter a few choice expletives and then go back about our business.

    Do we focus only on non-PvP activities? Guilty as charged.

    Are we afraid of being attacked by other players? Only to a certain extent. And we try to look smart when venturing into a wormhole, say, to see if it's occupied before we go off to kill Sleepers for fun and profit.

    Are we whining for game changes to nerf PvP? No. Because one of these days, the foot's going to be on the other hand, hopefully, and then we will want whatever perceived advantages the PvP'ers have now.

    So, are we carebears or not? I suppose we are...but be mindful that bears have teeth and claws, and react dangerously when cornered. :-)

  5. Funny, funny topic :)
    What drew me to the "Comments" section was the word "winge" used in the main post... I just HAD to reply to that.. .:) "whinges" ... That's clasic :) Thanks! Seriously!!
    Then I read "...one of these days, the foot's going to be on the other HAND...." OH MY GOD! Classic...
    Thank you guys for a great read (maybe not on an intellectual level, as I originally wanted, but GOD, I'm in a MUCH better mood now :)

    Sometimes Happiness finds you when you aren't looking for it....

    Fly safe... If you can't do that, fly stupid, then at least I'll have some fun :)


  6. Your depth of arrogance is staggering.

    The game is like this to suit me, the PVPer.

    The PVPer doesn't like it when things get changed to suit another playstyle.

    I could go on but I strongly suspect that when such egocentric bull is being spewed that it wouldn't matter.

    Or, as you might be tempted to say yourself, dry your tears, you and your pvp pals really aren't the centre of the universe.

  7. hmmm I take the middle raod. I need ships built by peopel that specialize in that. Period. I do not build ships nor want to do that (at least for the past two years) I liek blowning them up. Doesn't mean I don't VALUE what the industry guys do...it just meansthat I do not want to do that. There are industry guys in PvP ( how you think the dreads get built) My thoughts on a care bear is someone that wants no part what so ever of any pvp ( even CEPTA's INDUSTRY guys get on our killboards) that is where the arguement breaks down as I thin MANY peple have alts that do their industry work while theier main ( or vice versa) PvP's. They are one and the same players doing what it takes to make PvP happen.

  8. Christ my typing is weak...sorry bout that.

  9. "players who stay in CONCORD space and never venture into lowsec or 0.0 space"

    I disagree with this point only because many "carebears" work with PvPers in corps and alliances to get to 0.0/low sec pVE resources (rats, missions, asteroids) and still fall into the other categories.

  10. I am a happy high-sec dweller who couldn't care less about PvP. However, by your definition above, I am no carebear. If I get ganked, I consider it the cost of doing business and move on. EvE is for all types of players. You play your way and I'll play mine. PvP can happen anywhere - so what? This discussion just begs a counter-post about who should be considered "pirates" in EvE. It is another term like "carebear" that is bandied about by everyone, but there is no common definition.

  11. LOL I really laughed at this. Can you spell irony? No?

    Too funny.

    I do agree with you though, too many whiners. But most of the whining I've seen is from PvPers that want to gank the carebears. Although I have seen it from the carebears themselves also.

    I consider myself a carebear. Although by your definition I'm not. I do go into low-sec when necessary and I have participated in PvP when needed to protect my loot, but not often, I'll admit.

    But mostly I don't whine if I get killed by another player, or they steal my loot, or salvage my wrecks. It's just part of the game.

    I am getting ready to do the 50 fights thing that you suggested. Should be interesting.

  12. Honestly, I don't call myself a carebear. I don't go looking to fight head to head, but I spend 95% of my time flying in low sec to get better deals. This is PvP, and the win/lose rules are the risk vs. reward rules. At the end of the year, did I make more money than I lost, and was it more money than what I could have made in HISEC. And furthermore and most important was it more fun?

    Oh yes to all those questions, and yes I call this PvP.

  13. Quote: "players who ruin PVP games by whinging so much to the game developers that the game developers think they're the majority and change the game to suit the Carebears"

    I don't agree with that - that is your personal opinion and doesn't fit the generic characteristics of a carebear.

    I like carebears, and have seen many in lowsec/0.0 but the rule is they try to stay away from anything PVP related.

    Sometimes they get a nose-bleed, and taste their blood, and then, as chance would have it, develop a feeding disorder that requires them to go and seek out some more blood, this time not their own. They start learning how to PVP and greadually evolve from being a carebear and become newbs.

    That's my story anyways :-)

  14. Somehow we humans have a tendency to want to categorize things, ideas and people. The problem is, no matter how well you define your category, it is bound to be a generalization - and those never work. That's why personally I try not to categorize and just play.

    I think your post was well designed in that it succeeded to get a big reaction from all those who felt they were being categorized :)

    I guess I am more a carebear myself, but I do not care at all :D


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